Yet Another Unbelievable Dialogue with Mormons....

As I scanned over one of the Facebook groups I had joined long ago, erroneously entitled "Mormons are Christians", I looked at some of the comments posted to me in said group. Once again I was amazed at the 'logic' and blind-faith just running rampant in these people's minds. The comments in focus said:

"The Word of God is delivered by the Holy Ghost to the penitent believer in Christ. Do you believe that Greek and Hebrew scholars trump the Holy Spirit? The Words of Christ are true and are had within the Book of Mormon. You resist the Holy Spirit which would teach you this because you have placed your trust in scholars, the very people Christ warned you not to trust. Regarding scholars, they often disagree on what is truth by their own interpretation of similar facts. Why have you put your trust in man and not in God to know whether the Book of Mormon is true? Will you read the Book of Mormon and pray for God's Holy Spirit to teach you whether it is true? Trust in no man, but only in the Lord and you shall not err."

Let's just take a while with this one for a bit. Don't be surprised if you find yourself shaking your head, wondering, "What are these guys thinking?" Well, the fact is they're thinking exactly what the Mormon "Church" tells them to think. If that includes using bizzare thought and a-history to defend their position, then they'll go for it. In all reality this is no different than the way a Jehovah's Witness or even a KJV-Onlyite would handle a situation in which their position is entirely ripped apart by the testimonies of Scripture and Church History. To answer the first sentence in the above quote:

"The Word of God is delivered by the Holy Ghost to the penitent believer in Christ. Do you believe that Greek and Hebrew scholars trump the Holy Spirit?"

Wow, what's one to make of that? Seriouslly, what is one to make of this incredibly, incredibly, absurd statement? Usually I reveal the names of the persons I dialogue with, but for the sake of saving this particular LDS emberresment, his name is withheld. First off the Word of God is revealed by the Holy Ghost through Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Where can we find evidense for this? Glory be! why in the very Scriptures themselves! As a short, stout, little man in an old fairy-tale movie always used to say: "Inconceivable!" The Bible tells us that whosoever listens to the Church listens to Christ Himself. It also tells us the Church will never be wiped out, since the gates of hell shall never prevail, and it will remain doctrinally pure for all time till Christ's Return. History shows that the Catholic Church, through witness of the saints, and decree of the Councils, did indeed assemble the Bible. For a truth, the Word of God is delivered - once and for all time - to the saints through the Church. Of course, in Mormonism whatever the elders say, alledgedly by power of the Holy Ghost, is to be considered as Scripture also. Not so in orthodox Christianity. As for Greek and Hebrew scholars: they do not trump the Holy Spirit, rather the Holy Spirit moves them to the knowledge of the ancient texts, which by God's grace are so easily provided for us to know that our current translations are quite accurate.

"The Words of Christ are true and are had within the Book of Mormon. You resist the Holy Spirit which would teach you this because you have placed your trust in scholars, the very people Christ warned you not to trust."

Amazement again. The words of the Mormon-christ have been altared, removed, added, removed, then added again, throughout the generations of the LDS Cult. Not only has the grammar changed, but with it the message changed as well. Is this the pure and undefiled Word of God? If that's God's Word then I'm a salamander! (Joke; Hoffman Forgeries anyone? Too bad the Holy Spirit failed yet again to tell Christ's most glorious, most exalted "Church" that the documents were indeed forgeries). Forgive my insanity for placing my trust in a text that has remained unaltered for 2,000 years, with documentation and solid evidense to prove said claim. The Book of Mormon has no evidense whatsoever to prove itself as true. Finally, my trust is not placed in scholars but in Almighty God. It's not my fault the scholars, who have a gift from God to study the original texts, are taking my side in the issue. Isn't that just like a cultist, folks? They have no intention of dialogueing intelligently: instead they revert to subtle ad-hominem or absurd ideas that are supposed to bolster their claims.....but then crumble under close scrutiny. Mormons will throw all kinds of LDS "scholars" at you, praising them with praises so wonderful you'd swear these men were gods. But then, when other unbiased scholars look at the texts, and agree with my position, all of a sudden we can't listen to scholars! Am I the only one seeing a problem with this? And as a sidenote, Christ condemned the Scribes and Pharisees because of their conduct and false teaching. Textual scholars simply explain what the ancient languages are saying. There is no doctrinal catch to the matter. Goodness.

" Regarding scholars, they often disagree on what is truth by their own interpretation of similar facts. Why have you put your trust in man and not in God to know whether the Book of Mormon is true?"

First statement is as untrue as it gets. Thayer for example disagree with fundamental Christian doctrine, yet he still explained precisly in his lexicon what each word means, and each word proves my position clearly. Also, the translators behind Mormonism's beloved KJV, many of them disagreed with a lot of Christian doctrine, yet the Mormons have no trouble placing their trust in this mere translation, which isn't even the same translation put out by the Church on England. Secondly, as many times as I've told this gentleman, but it seems to enter one ear and exit the other, because I have put my trust in the Lord Jesus Christ I KNOW from that alone the Book of Mormon is a blasphemous abomination to Christendom.

"Will you read the Book of Mormon and pray for God's Holy Spirit to teach you whether it is true? Trust in no man, but only in the Lord and you shall not err."

Amen and amen. And thank God I trust Him enough that He has led me to know for truth the Book of Mormon is filled from front to cover with heresy.

The second comment is this:

"Speaking of borrowed holidays, do you believe what the Catholic church teaches about Christ being born exactly at midnight on December 25? According to the events surrounding Christ's birth (Joseph travelling to Bethlehem for the taxing and census) He was more likely born in early spring. Modern day revelation in our church says He was born on April 6. Recent biblical scholars predicted late March or early April. The scholars are not always on your side, nor on mine, which is why you shouldn't put so much emphasis there. The celebration of Christmas in December is borrowed from a Pagan holiday, and so is Easter. The name Easter in fact is directly and clearly derived from the Pagan goddess of fertility (eggs and bunnies are also Pagan symbols of fertility). Let's not be so proud of traditions which are not as pure as we'd like to think."

"Speaking of borrowed holidays, do you believe what the Catholic church teaches about Christ being born exactly at midnight on December 25? According to the events surrounding Christ's birth (Joseph travelling to Bethlehem for the taxing and census) He was more likely born in early spring."

First of all December 25th was chosen because it was a pagan holiday. Instead of letting the people worship a false god, the Church eradicated the holiday and established the birth of Christ as they day to be remembered, and Him to be truly worshiped. What is celebrated is not the date itself, but what took place on that day.

" He was more likely born in early spring. Modern day revelation in our church says He was born on April 6. Recent biblical scholars predicted late March or early April. The scholars are not always on your side, nor on mine, which is why you shouldn't put so much emphasis there."

Hate to break it to you, but we knew long before the so-called "revelation" that Christ was born in late March or early April. So to say they're not always on my side really makes no sense, and really you need to do a little more reading on the matter before making these claims which just don't hold up. Honestly.

"The celebration of Christmas in December is borrowed from a Pagan holiday, and so is Easter. The name Easter in fact is directly and clearly derived from the Pagan goddess of fertility (eggs and bunnies are also Pagan symbols of fertility). Let's not be so proud of traditions which are not as pure as we'd like to think."

Concerning first statment, yes I already mentioned that. Same goes for Easter. Oh, and the name "Church" was first used for the pagan assemblies in their temples. Oh but wait, you don't have any problem using the term "church" for the Mormon "Church". Or the word "janitor" being derived from Janus, a pagan god. Do you keep away from janitors then? Once again, that logic falls apart.

So do you see folks, what I've been saying all along? No matter how you try and dialogue with the cults, if they dont want to listen, they'll come up with all kinds of strange "defenses" and illogical ideas that supposedly give Mormonism a boost.

It can be frustrating for people like me who just want to dialogue intelligently with these people and hopefully make them think about why they believe what they believe. Well, the Scripture is true that says, "They draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me."

Thanks for reading. God bless.